____ _ ____ ___ _____ _ _ ___ ___ ___ | _ \ ___ ___ ___ _ __ ___ | |__ ___ _ __ |___ \( _ ) |___ // | / |/ _ \ ( _ )/ _ \ | | | |/ _ \/ __/ _ \ '_ ` _ \| '_ \ / _ \ '__| __) / _ \ _____ |_ \| | | | (_) |/ _ \ (_) | | |_| | __/ (_| __/ | | | | | |_) | __/ | / __/ (_) |_____|__) | |_ | |\__, | (_) \__, | |____/ \___|\___\___|_| |_| |_|_.__/ \___|_| |_____\___/ |____/|_( ) |_| /_/ \___/ /_/ |/ Message: 62165 Author: $ Daryl Westfall Category: Chit Chat Subject: Zak/Porn Definition Date: 12/27/89 Time: 08:24:03 I feel, personally, that something may be deemed pornographic, if it doesn't meet any or all of the following criteria. * If the item is a film, the sex scenes do not outnumber the regular scenes, or obliterate any sense of a plot. * If the sex scenes are there, the sex scenes should not include graphic genital close-ups. I feel it doesn't help the plot of any film one iota. * Again, if film, the sole interest of the film should not be the excitement of the sexual organs. (The type of film that Joe Schmoe rents down at the video store, and fast forwards between brief "non-sex" scenes, to get to the "action.") * The film must not portray women in a sexually degrading sense (the same with the men in the film, though this is seldom the case). The exception being that the portrayal, in a larger sense, clearly shows a condemnatory attitude toward derrogatory themes (I hope I worded that right, did you understand it? Basically, if a "degrading" scene is used to portray a bigger picture that the sort of thing is wrong.) Message: 62166 Author: $ Daryl Westfall Category: Chit Chat Subject: Zak II Date: 12/27/89 Time: 08:27:22 I don't necessarily agree with Cliff's comment (that you are "immoral" for defending pornography). A debate has to have two sides, or it becomes very boring indeed. To have a debate in which everyone agrees is quite silly when you attempt to envision it. Message: 62167 Author: $ Daryl Westfall Category: Chit Chat Subject: Zak (is it III?) Date: 12/27/89 Time: 08:32:48 Now if a nativity scene (or a menorah, or whatever) were placed upon public property by the government, or an agency of the government, I agree that I would have cause to be concerned. But if such scene were placed on public property by an individual or non-governmental entity, I question the problem. Parks are indeed public property, and if you want to step up on a soapbox and speak publicly on something, you can. It is not limited to non-religious topics. And I feel that a public speaker makes more of a statement than any nativity scene could. What is your opinion on private, non-governmental displays of any religious persuasion on public property? As for the crack topic, it was a while back. I had the computer down for a week or so. Let me go back and re-read it. Message: 62168 Author: $ Ann Oudin Category: Chit Chat Subject: Ray Date: 12/27/89 Time: 09:51:25 Hi again Ray. I assume you are the former Ray Meatcutter?! Ha ha. Did you join good old Apollo? Hope so. I too hope you had a Merry one. Looking forward to chatting with you. -=*) ANN (*=- P.S. A friendly hint .... turn off your caps when writing messages. We can hear you? *Heh Message: 62169 Author: $ Ann Oudin Category: Chit Chat Subject: Daryl Date: 12/27/89 Time: 10:00:27 Gads no, I do not think you condone the depiction of rape in films! When I say "this is my opinion" I always mean just that and you have yours. I respect yours and always want mine respected also. That's what makes it nice to banter about a subject - the difference of opinions. We all have reasons of our own on how we come to believe in something and that is where the interest lies - finding out how and why and person believes the way they do. See? I know I've changed my mind about a subject or a person - see their side more clearly on this board. So please don't take offence. None was intended. In fact, when you said "I believe a film can handle the subject of rape without acting it out in graphic realism" -- we are in perfect agreement! So what's the fuss? -=*) ANN (*=- Message: 62170 Author: $ Ann Oudin Category: Chit Chat Subject: Zak Date: 12/27/89 Time: 10:05:45 Yeah I did notice that Cliff turned the Panama thing around to my smoking. I think I get his hint that he wants me to quit! He's not being too subtle. -=*) ANN (*=- Message: 62171 Author: $ Beauregard Dog Category: Chit Chat Subject: 62152 Date: 12/27/89 Time: 11:00:28 What a fairy story! Remind me not to tell that one to my kids. Message: 62172 Author: $ Beauregard Dog Category: Chit Chat Subject: religious icons Date: 12/27/89 Time: 11:03:41 OK, so, it wouldn't be bad if individuals (not the gov't) placed a menorah r or a nativity scene on government property. Some people claim that Communism is a religion - what if I wanted to place a hammer-and-sicle (sp?) on public property for a May Day celebration? I remember the holier-than-thou crowd fought to keep Terry Choate from putting a North Vietnamese flag on his War Protesters memorial. And, what if some local Shiites decided to place a picture of Khomeini on public property to celebrate an Islamic holy day? What about Satanists (the Anton LaVey type) putting put symbols to celebrate their own birthdays? Message: 62173 Author: David Ray Category: Get-Togethers (GTs) Subject: #Guns..Porn..noise. Date: 12/27/89 Time: 11:23:39 I did'nt mean to catagorize this as a GT. I am experiencing line noise. As for guns, they do not kill people. People kill people. A gun is merely a tool as is a knife, hammer, or an Axe but in the wrong hands, any of those items may be used to kill. As for pornography, I don't like it but am afraid if people take away pornography, they can take away other forms of "Freedom of Speech". It is kind of like the assault rifle issue. It started out with military type rifles and automatic weapons, and now they talk about taking away semi-automatic pistols. After spending 4 years in the Navy, it bothers me when a buch of fools talk about taking away some of our rights. (maybe my comparison is a little weak but I will be more than happy to elaborate if it is required.) Dave Message: 62174 Author: David Ray Category: Answer! Subject: Panama Date: 12/27/89 Time: 11:28:53 I believe our invasion had nothing to do with the Panama Canal but I do think that we figure the Panama Canal is an added bonus. We should have never given that sucker away anyway. Too many americans died building it, and it has very very important military advantages. Message: 62175 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Chit Chat Subject: Ann on subtle.. Date: 12/27/89 Time: 12:33:01 You noticed.... Well? I hate hearing about our boys in the service getting killed in action. But, freedom has a price and we can't run from tyranny just because someone might get hurt or killed. I also hate to see people kill themselves with poison and drugs, just to get a 'high'. Smoking has no useful purpose! *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=* Message: 62176 Author: $ Jim Lippard Category: Chit Chat Subject: 62152 Date: 12/27/89 Time: 14:20:47 If death is really the beginning, why not get started? What's the point of life on earth at all? Message: 62177 Author: $ Jim Lippard Category: Chit Chat Subject: 62150 Date: 12/27/89 Time: 14:25:50 Re: "There are few people who watch 'entry-level' porn that could actually sit and comfortably watch a real couple doing it in their presence. But what is the real difference between these two?" Are you saying you can't tell the difference between film and reality? Notice that the first sentence above is not only true of porn, it is true of television commercials and virtually any other fictional scene you care to think of. Re: porn in general. Two issues should be distinguished: 1. Is porn morally bad? 2. What should be done about porn? Notice that a "yes" answer to the first does not imply the answer "it should be banned" to the latter; banning porn may well (and probably does) have consequences worse than allowing it to exist. (Just as the negative effects of drug prohibition outweigh the harms of the drugs themselves; see Ethan Nadelmann's article in the September 1, 1989 issue of _Science_.) Message: 62178 Author: Tom Smith Category: News Today Subject: peace Date: 12/27/89 Time: 20:42:20 t[DToday Is a going to be great for tomorrow will bring us great joy and only those will rejoice in the peace movement* Message: 62179 Author: $ Daryl Westfall Category: Chit Chat Subject: Beau Date: 12/27/89 Time: 22:25:42 Hey, think what you wish. It's yo' life. BTW: I think I might be able to get something Be Bop Deluxish out of Germany. Interested? Message: 62180 Author: $ Daryl Westfall Category: Chit Chat Subject: Beau/Icons Date: 12/27/89 Time: 22:29:33 For the most part, I would not be against it. I may not agree with it, and (in the case of the Satanists) it might turn my stomach, but I don't think I'd be parading around with placards or shouting rude comments against it. I understand that Anton Lavey was one of the cheesier "Satanists." He was real heavy on the showmanship (I believe there was some circus sideshow in his heritage somewhere...his father, perhaps?) Message: 62181 Author: $ Daryl Westfall Category: Chit Chat Subject: Uhoh, Dave Date: 12/27/89 Time: 22:30:42 You may have started something bigger than all of us. No...NOT a Guns/Noise/ Porn GT!!! NOoOoOoOoOoooo.... Message: 62182 Author: $ Daryl Westfall Category: Chit Chat Subject: Jim/62176 Date: 12/27/89 Time: 22:39:36 Heh, I take your thinly veiled sarcasm by returning a smile which I'm sure it was intended to induce. Seriously though, Jim. As a Christian, I cannot help myself to an "expressway" to eternal life (i.e., suicide). Standing before the Judgment Seat of Christ stained with the blood of my own self- murder...my pathway to eternity will indeed be shortened, but I'll be on the wrong path with no way back. What's the meaning of life here on Earth? Well, that's a leading question as you know what I am going to answer. Let's just say that my understanding of the meaning of life has made me a happier, more constructive person, and has eliminated all of my self-destructive tendencies that came from the misunderstood belief that my existence was all because of some great cosmic accident (i.e., utter pointlessness). Let's just say that the first two letters are "Chi" and "Rho." Message: 62183 Author: $ Daryl Westfall Category: Chit Chat Subject: Tom Smith/Peace Date: 12/27/89 Time: 22:41:10 Your message was a bit spotty. Would you care to elucidate? Message: 62184 Author: $ Jim Lippard Category: Chit Chat Subject: Anton LaVey Date: 12/27/89 Time: 23:50:06 LaVey himself worked for the circus. Message: 62185 Author: $ Jim Lippard Category: Chit Chat Subject: Daryl/62182 Date: 12/27/89 Time: 23:59:03 I may very well not be around to see the answer to my question, but I don't see how Christ or God can give life meaning in the ultimate sense (as contrasted with a universe without God). The very same problems about ultimate meaning for humans in a godless universe apply just as well to a universe in which human beings are part of God's plan. (What, for example, is it that gives God's life meaning? Having people exist who fulfill his plans?) Harvard philosopher Robert Nozick raises many interesting questions about just what we're looking for when we ask for "the meaning of life" in the last chapter of his book, _Philosophical Explanations_. Simply asserting the existence of God and our part in his plan doesn't suffice for "ultimate meaning." (Oh, and by not being around to see the answer to the question, I just mean I'm going back to Tucson tomorrow. I haven't decided to take my own life due to existential despair or anything. Personally I am not particularly plagued by a desire for "ultimate meaning"--every day garden variety meaning is good enough for me.) Message: 62186 Author: $ Zak Woodruff Category: Chit Chat Subject: Daryl Date: 12/28/89 Time: 02:46:27 So a film that portrays women in a degrading way *without* implying that this is wrong, is to be illegal? I disagree: even though this is a bad value (in my opinion), we can't take away people's right to express a belief (that women should be degraded). Likewise, we shouldn't censor the Ku Klux Klan, Satanists, or people who promote other values that the majority disagrees with. Good values shouldn't be taught simply by censoring (what are thought to be) bad values. Good values should be taught by expressing them louder, and more coherently; we teach best by example. Suppressing the oppositon is the wimp's route. I agree with the point that a distinction should be made between something being morally wrong, and the need for it to be illegal. Pornography may very well go against your values of how humans should behave and what's tasteless to portray on film (and that's quite understandable), but to censor it with legislation is a step in the wrong direction. So what do you think, Daryl? Do we need to close down hard-core pornography stores and declare pornography illegal? Or should we just let it exist, and put more effort into the promotion of good values? Message: 62187 Author: $ Paul Savage Category: Chit Chat Subject: Zak/last Date: 12/28/89 Time: 06:04:36 Your last question to Daryl puts us on a basis for agreement Zak. Since to suppress something seems to make it the more desirable to those who are being denied access, it wold seem the better thing to allow porn to exist while using more energy and time teaching, mostly by precept and example, the better qualities of life, the higher goals, the more worthy values. If we spent as much time teaching our children the benefits of maturing without delving into the gutters of life as we do in a futile attempt to clean up the gutters, we would probabaly not have to concern ourselves so much with the future generations. Message: 62188 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Chit Chat Subject: Last two on Porn Date: 12/28/89 Time: 09:02:29 I find my self in agreement with Zak and Paul..... Gadd Zooks! *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=* Message: 62189 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Vote Subject: Ye ol' Vote Date: 12/28/89 Time: 09:08:44 With what you know NOW; Do you approve of the actions of the U.S. Military in Panama? [A] Yes! [B] No! Poll results to date: [A] 23 [B] 5 The above seems rather obvious........ Message: 62190 Author: $ Beauregard Dog Category: Vote Subject: result on Panama Date: 12/28/89 Time: 11:16:45 Yep! People aren't thinking about the situation in the proper ways! Message: 62191 Author: $ Jim Lippard Category: Chit Chat Subject: USF Date: 12/28/89 Time: 15:11:48 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 89 10:20:30 est From: Eric Haines - firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: United Space Federation Here's your chance to help budding kooks with delusions of grandeur blossom into a full fledged crazies. Simply send a stamped, self-addressed envelope to: United Space Federation PO Box 4722 Ithaca, NY 14852 and ask them to send you information. You'll get stuff about the society, written in a style showing signs of incipient schizophrenia. No full blown rants here, rather, writing with glimpses of something not quite right with the author. Sublime kook stuff. He (Rick Dobson - is that last name symbolic or what?) and his friends have a television show on cable access here, which I am sad to say has not yet received notice of the world media or the aliens. I've caught the last minute ofthe show about four times, and judging from the credits I've missed a lot. Caught a glimpse of a woman at a podium in a white, 25th century style tunic with sash, then the USF logo came on, looking like something a sixth grader who liked to draw space ships would make for art class. Just to give you a taste of what you'll get, here's something from the USF pledge: I (blank) understand that should I break this pledge, I will be banned from the USF for life. My name and picture will be released to all USF members as a traitor to humankind and earth. My name and picture will be released to the world media as a traitor to the USF. and a few inspiring words from the intro letter: May our human ancestors of the future earth look back and say, "Those people of the world put aside all their differences for this one pure quest of unity for the knowledge of the cosmos. I am sure their world will be full of wonders we can only dream can happen!" We're still puzzling out who the "human ancestors of the future" are and in what time period they live. Anyway, I highly recommend blowing two stamps on this group. They'll be thrilled (and possibly confused) to get mail from outside the Ithaca area. Who knows? Maybe your note will inspire them to start building the international launch site now. Message: 62193 Author: $ Jim Lippard Category: Chit Chat Subject: from me Date: 12/28/89 Time: 15:18:52 I got my stuff from the USF today (20 cents postage due, so be sure to put 45 cents on the SASE). Rick Dobson was overjoyed that someone from faraway Phoenix has heard of his organization and wrote me a long handwritten note. He's semi-illiterate, apparently: "Dear Jim, I am glad that someone in Phoenix, AZ has herd of my quest! Many people and organizations from around the world have been sending me letters in support of the United Space Federation. Human Kind is now faced with many global challenges, space the new fronteer offers many promising solutions and answers to those problems. If human kind is not to become exstinct like the dinosours on your stamps we must prepair our future with antisapation of much change of the world that supports us, and the ever changing universe around us. Just recently an asteroide of emense size nearly missed stricking the earth. If this had happend what would be our fate!, and would we have been prepaired to adapt to the effects it would have caused. That is why human kind must exspand its knowledge of the universe around us; not that we as micro cosoms in the universe will have the Power to change forces beyond our controle, but simply have the insight and knowledge to prepair our Future generations for these changes. So that they may carry the wounder of life outward to the stars that are our past and our future! Thank you for your support and interest in my quest for the stars. Tell others of this quest so that it may be realized and passed on to those who follow us, and to those who follow them! Godspeed $ car-PAY-dieum. Founder $ director UNITED SPACE FEDERATION, Rick R. Dobson" Message: 62194 Author: $ Dean Hathaway Category: Get-Togethers (GTs) Subject: Guns/Porn/Noise Date: 12/28/89 Time: 21:34:12 Actually we were only one item short of that at the Buckaroo Banzai GT last night. See You Later Dean H. Message: 62195 Author: $ Ann Oudin Category: Chit Chat Subject: Cliff Date: 12/29/89 Time: 09:37:21 Re: "Smoking has no useful purpose"! ...... neither is a lot of things in this life but that doesn't mean people don't enjoy it and I consider that a useful purpose. BTW - how would you know about smoking? Did you ever smoke? And I don't mean a puff or a few cigaretts when you were a youth? -=*) ANN (*=- Message: 62196 Author: $ Ann Oudin Category: Chit Chat Subject: Cliff on vote Date: 12/29/89 Time: 09:46:09 What was the purpose of the Chr.shtmlas tree vote? Who got it together and why? Wouldn't it be easier to just ask the members how they feel about X-trees than go to a vote? -=*) ANN (*=- Message: 62197 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Chit Chat Subject: Ann Date: 12/29/89 Time: 11:53:39 Yes, I did smoke for several years.... And yes people do enjoy it. But that enjoyment seems to get in the way of the people who don't enjoy it. I know... you think not smoking around a person fixes that... But to be 100 percent honest...if you are a real non-smoker, just being near a person that smokes can make you sick even when they are NOT smoking! Everything that smoker has REEKS with the tobacco stench. Where is the enjoyment in that? When you get older and get very sick or collapse a lung, where is the enjoyment in that? When you're giving all you families life saving for their 'Golden Years' to some Doctor to keep you alive, where is the enjoyment in that. Note: My Aunt Edith who was married to my Uncle Bob who died a horrible death because of heavy smoking is now pretty much broke. That smoker sure left his wife in pickle.... Where is the enjoyment in that? Please tell me Ann? Hu? Say it louder Ann... Message: 62198 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Chit Chat Subject: Ann on Vote Date: 12/29/89 Time: 12:04:05 One third of all the trees brought into Arizona were sold. That left two thirds on the lots. I personaly do not believe in Chr.shtmlas trees. I think this holiday has gotten too commercial, and is not celebrated for the correct reasons. Chr.shtmlas is not about Santa Claus and Chr.shtmlas trees, but is about Christ, the savior of mankind. Ann, I was just curious as to how many other people did not have a tree, and to how many other people decided on an artificial tree to avoid the money grabbers on the tree lots. I guess when I was a kid in Rhode Island, We all had real trees...but they were cheap.... I remember them being under 5 bucks and smelling better than the ones sold here. Message: 62199 Author: Mike Carter Category: Chit Chat Subject: USF Date: 12/29/89 Time: 17:09:23 HAHAHAHHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAH AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA--AHA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAH-HAH-HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA-COUGH-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH Ok, send them that on a postcard. ..and tape a picture of Phyllis Diller on it. Message: 62200 Author: $ Daryl Westfall Category: Chit Chat Subject: Jim/God Date: 12/29/89 Time: 22:11:47 How could a human being possibly attempt to speculate the thoughts of an infinite, omnipresent, omnipotent God? Sure, it is mind-boggling to think about, but impossible to answer (at least here and now). Message: 62201 Author: $ Daryl Westfall Category: Chit Chat Subject: Zak/Porn/Illegal Date: 12/29/89 Time: 22:13:35 I thought we were attempting to define pornography, not creating criteria for making it illegal. Message: 62202 Author: $ Daryl Westfall Category: Chit Chat Subject: Zak/Paul/62186-8 Date: 12/29/89 Time: 22:14:50 I agree with the both of you as well. But then again, you've already read my previous post. Message: 62203 Author: $ Daryl Westfall Category: Chit Chat Subject: Jim/USF Date: 12/29/89 Time: 22:17:07 I know that this message is not from you, but do you have access to this public access cable program? I would be interested in sending you out a blank videotape to record a segment or two for me. Wallace & Ladmo is history and I need stupid humor to wake me up in the morning. Message: 62204 Author: $ Daryl Westfall Category: Chit Chat Subject: Ann/Cigarettes Date: 12/29/89 Time: 22:22:43 My, after an eventful day, I can think of nothing more satisfying than putting something "on fire" in my mouth and inhaling noxious fumes and poisons. (Heh) So, what's the difference between those few cigarettes in youth and a pack in adulthood? Does one's carbon monoxide hormone production mature at 21? (Heh heh) Message: 62205 Author: $ Daryl Westfall Category: Chit Chat Subject: Cliff/trees Date: 12/29/89 Time: 22:25:15 My wife and I are using the same artificial tree that my parents used for over 20 years. It leans a little but it still looks nice and we saved a tree (again!) Message: 62206 Author: $ Bob Thornburg Category: Answer! Subject: Daryl Date: 12/29/89 Time: 23:42:58 Re: "Sure, you are going to find some self-righteous people who claim to be Christians. There are those Christians who become so self-righteous, they forget just who is really in authority." Jesus said there would be wolves in sheep's clothing and to watch out for them, but what I don't understand is why the rest of the wolves point to the wolves in sheep's clothing and blame their behavior on the sheep?? Message: 62207 Author: $ Bob Thornburg Category: Answer! Subject: Jeff Date: 12/29/89 Time: 23:43:34 Jeff, I thought your posts on guns in Switzerland and the US was very enlightening. Where did you get the statistics? Message: 62208 Author: $ Bob Thornburg Category: Answer! Subject: JT Date: 12/29/89 Time: 23:44:19 Re: "perhaps if you would read the book in question instead of prejudging it" Gee Jim, I hardly have time to read the books I think I might like. From your description of the book, I don't think I would like it. Re: "McDowell's books are pretty lousy." That's a very general statement. Perhaps if you could be more specific or cite an example, I could better understand why you think his books are "lousy". Re: "Christian philosopher William Lane Craig" I'm surprised to hear you approve of any one who's a Christian. Perhaps I've misjudged you, but I doubt it. I will look for the 2 books you have recommended the next time I go to the library. Craig actually said that McDowell's books are "pretty lousy"? Interesting. Actually I have not read your book either. Would you send me an autographed copy for a Chr.shtmlas present? I promise to read it. Re: "Why is it that you're being so ad hominem" I confess; I don't know what "ad hominem" means. Tell me what it means, and I'll try to improve. I hope you had a Merry Chr.shtmlas Jim. I would have responded sooner, but I was out of state for most of the week. Message: 62209 Author: $ Bob Thornburg Category: Answer! Subject: JT Date: 12/29/89 Time: 23:44:52 Re: "The Catholic Bible contains different books than the Protestant Bible. And if your criterion for what makes the REAL Bible is whatever the Jews accept, then you obviously reject the New Testament." Come on Jim. You should know what my answer is. You're just trying to show-boat. But I'll answer anyway. The Catholic Bible only contains different books in the OT. So I have accepted the OT as the Hebrews have accepted it. Like you said, they are God's chosen people. Re: "have you ever read any books about early Christian history and the formation of Christian traditions" I took a course on the reformation taught by Rod Bias, but that's about it. I don't see how traditions would effect the truth of the Bible, and that truth is what I'm mostly interested in. What did you have in mind? Message: 62210 Author: $ Bob Thornburg Category: Answer! Subject: JT Date: 12/29/89 Time: 23:45:17 Re: "I now have in my possession a "rose petal blessed by Jesus and Mary for cures and conversions." It says so right on the label. I don't blame you for being skeptical Jim. I think any intelligent person would be. You've heard the cliche, "There's a sucker born every minute." Tell me Jim, how much did you have to pay for the rose petal? :-) Message: 62211 Author: $ Bob Thornburg Category: Answer! Subject: Shawn Date: 12/29/89 Time: 23:45:55 Re: "In God's mind, the Bible existed in its entirety before the world was created. He intended it to be a complete book in man's time." -Bob Thornburg" Help, I can't seem to find that passage in my Bible. Would the author of the post please elaborate?" It's not in the Bible, but since God is omniscient . . . Message: 62212 Author: $ Bob Thornburg Category: Answer! Subject: Zak Date: 12/29/89 Time: 23:46:34 Re: "I think it might be best if we get a solid definition of pornography." Yea, right! The Supreme Court can't even come up with a "solid definition" of porn. Why don't you give it a shot, and I'll tell you what I think of it. Re: "Censorship sucks." You believe in censorship as much as I do. You just draw the line in a different place. Re: "But some of my best friends are Christians, and I have a lot of respect for them." Thanks Zak! I respect you too! I knew you were just kidding when you called me a "weenie". (or was it a hot dog?) Message: 62213 Author: $ Beauregard Dog Category: Chit Chat Subject: Daryl/USF Date: 12/30/89 Time: 00:24:06 That cable program is in New York state. Jim (and I) heard about it from the network. As to the problem of finding stupid humor in the morning... how about recording Late Night with David Letterman and watching it when you wake up? Message: 62214 Author: $ Beauregard Dog Category: Chit Chat Subject: Daryl/Be Bop Deluxe Date: 12/30/89 Time: 00:26:17 What does 'ish' mean when appended to "Be Bop Deluxe" ??? Something live but not _Live! In the Air Age_ ??? Message: 62215 Author: $ Paul Savage Category: Chit Chat Subject: The joys of smoking Date: 12/30/89 Time: 06:02:24 1. The joy of waking yourself up in the middle of he night, hacking your lungs out until you gag. 2. The sheer pleasure of watching your friends avod being close to you, because you smell so bad, and since your sense of smell has been deadened, you don't even know why. 3. The sheer pleasure of having the same, non-smoking friends (they're in the majority now) decline to visit you at home because your whole house smells like a used ash tray, right down to the drapes, furniture and carpet. (Of course, you don't realize this, for the same reason mentioned above. 4. The joy of watching your money go up in smoke or into the garbage as the price of poison continually increases. 5. The joy of eating all that food that tastes like cardboard, since your taste buds went the way of your other senses, thanks to the poisons you have put into your mouth. 6. The fun of picking out new clothes, to replace all those with the ugly burn holes in them. 7. The sheer pleasure of pondering the fact that, should you quit, within one year your lungs would return to a healthy condition, but you don't simply because you are hopelessly addicted, and all you can come up with for an excuse is that you "enjoy" all these little pleasures. And oh yes, I almost forgot the fun of catching up on all those outdated magazines you missed while you are in the doctor's waiting room, waiting for him to tell you that you have some incurable, smoking related disease, and have knowingly and willingly shortened your life span by a lot. Message: 62216 Author: $ Ann Oudin Category: Chit Chat Subject: Cliff on smoking Date: 12/30/89 Time: 08:01:47 When you are about 55 years old, I will come visit you in the hospital. No doubt you will be there for a bleeding ulcer - cause from stress by getting so upset over such things as other people smoking. Silly? Yeah! Just about as silly as you being so sure I'm going to end up with a collapsed lung or something. You can talk all you want about your uncle Bob and I can talk for hours about my uncle Alva that lived to be 86 and smoked all his life - unfiltered cigarettes, cigars and pipes too. He just died of natural causes - no lung problems at all. -=*) ANN (*=- Message: 62217 Author: $ Ann Oudin Category: Chit Chat Subject: Cliff on trees Date: 12/30/89 Time: 08:09:28 Your right about what Chr.shtmlas really means. It seems our society has changed all that to mean nothing but 'buy, buy, buy'. Even if one is an athiest, it is still a time for thoughts of peace on earth and good fellowship - loving each other. I like a tree simply because it smells good. We have collected animal ornaments for the last 21 years - I get a new one each year - this year it was a stuffed panda. Tress are also for kids. How wonderful it is for them to wake up on Chr.shtmlas morning to see their presents gaily wrapped sitting under that tree. I do not feel that trees are over priced. We go to Tip Top nursery and get ours each year - an eight footer for $19. At today's prices, that's fair. These trees were specially grown on a Xmas tree farm and is a business. We are not ruining our ecology by cutting them down. If a lot of trees arn't sold, it's a loss to the owner is all. -=*) ANN (*=- Message: 62218 Author: $ Ann Oudin Category: Answer! Subject: Paul/last Date: 12/30/89 Time: 08:26:14 I'm gonna blow holes in your little self rightous list ... 1. I do not hack nor cough from smoking - and I certainly don't wake up in the night and do it. I never did cough. Sorry! 2. I HAVE no FRIENDS that won't come close to me because I smoke. They wouldn't be friends if they judged me so. 3. Sorry here too - most of my friends do smoke, so that makes them the majority in my life. BTW - smokers have always been in the minority even at the peak of cigarette consumption. 4. I will have to agree with you on this one - money does indeed go up in smoke. But choclolate goes to fat - water goes down the toilet, etc. etc. 5. There's NOTHING wrong with my taste buds. When I have quit before, I could not tell the difference. Taste buds change with age normally anyway. 6. I have no burn holes in my clothes. Will admit that careless hubby does though! 7. I don't know how good a shape a person's lung would be after one year of not smoking - but I have read statistics that you really arn't adding all that many years to your life by quitting because if your prone to lung damage, it's already been done. When I go to the doctor he has so far told me my lungs sound fine. One even went to far as to tell me that they didn't sound like I smoked. So put this in your pipe and smoke it! -=*) ANN (*=- Message: 62219 Author: Larry Winn Category: News Today Subject: AUSTRALIAN SPACEPORT Date: 12/30/89 Time: 09:34:32 THE AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT HAS APPROVED PLANS FOR A COMMERCIAL SPACEPORT. THE FACILITY ON THE CAPE YORK PENINSULA WILL USE THE SOVIET UNION'S ZENIT BOOSTERS FOR COMMERCIAL SATELLITE LAUNCHES. THE INITIAL LAUNCHES ARE SCHEDULED FOR 1995. THE DECISION TO USE THE SOVIET-BUILT ROCKETS WAS BASED ON MUCH LOWER COSTS AND PROVEN RELIABILITY. Message: 62220 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Answer! Subject: Ann's reply to Paul Date: 12/30/89 Time: 11:46:00 Sandy mentioned she was by your house twice in the last few days. Well, One of those times I was with her and Sandy said "Let's go visit Ann"... I said "Hell no, My allergy can't take that punishment", and onward I kept driving. You have more Smoker friends because they are the only ones that can get close to you...... When Sandy visits you and comes home...I won't get near her till she showers and gets them smoke filled clothes in the washer. And I go out and open up the car to let it air out. Sorry Ann... Smoke really bothers me and them's the facts! Good thing you are such a nice person! Your uncle who died of natural causes is the RARE exception.... It is a proven fact Smokers KILL themselves and other people around them. Women once out lived men by many years... this is changing because more women smoke now days then they did 50 years ago. I am not upset about people smoking... I stay as far a-way as I can from them. You like the smell of Chr.shtmlas trees, and I like the smell of clean air! No ulcer here! HOWEVER.... If I had my choice, I would not have these awful allergies, and might be able to better handle it. Now let's talk about how many more people died in fires caused by smokers then were killed in Panama this year....... Message: 62221 Author: $ Dean Hathaway Category: Chit Chat Subject: Smoking Date: 12/30/89 Time: 12:48:00 You can add tobacco smoking in with venereal disease as another revenge of the American indian against the Europeans who came over and wiped out their civilization. See You Later Dean H. Message: 62222 Author: Tom Smith Category: Chit Chat Subject: TOM SMITH/SUNSETS Date: 12/30/89 Time: 21:21:01 YOU ARE SO RIGHT ABOUT WHAT YOU SAID HAVE A HAPPY NEW YEAR. Message: 62223 Author: Tom Smith Category: Chit Chat Subject: TOM SMITH/PEACE Date: 12/30/89 Time: 21:24:03 I`m sure we all have a little trouble trying to express oursleves somtimes I just hope we have a good new year Message: 62224 Author: $ Paul Savage Category: Chit Chat Subject: Ann/my list Date: 12/31/89 Time: 05:33:28 You must have a guilty conscience Annie! COrrect me if I'm wrong, but I believe that I titled my post "The joys of smoking", and don't think that your name was in there at all. At any rate, you didn't blow holes in anything I said. Every point Imade was pure and simple fact, in probably 95% of all smokers. If you're the exception to any of those, you better quit while you're ahead. Remember, emphysema is incurable. So are most forms of lung cancer. So is terminal heart disease, most of which is caused by smoking. So you say that you smoke because you enjoy it? Gee, Ann. I seem to remember that one. It's the same lie that I told myself for years. Must be generic. Message: 62225 Author: $ Paul Savage Category: Chit Chat Subject: Tom Smith Date: 12/31/89 Time: 05:36:16 Gee Tom, you're having such a nice conversation with yourself, I almost hate to interrupt. But I will anyway. Have a happy new year yourself! Message: 62226 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Chit Chat Subject: New Year Cheer! Date: 12/31/89 Time: 07:01:49 Happy New Year everyone... (That includes the smokers too) ha ha *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=* Message: 62227 Author: $ Ann Oudin Category: Chit Chat Subject: Cliff on smoking Date: 12/31/89 Time: 10:16:56 Yes, I know smoking bothers you and I've always tried to be considerate. I too once had very bad sinus and allergies and it was strange ... I could smoke, but could not stand for it to be blown in my face - either mine or someone else's smoke. Moving to Arizona cured it completely fortunately. -=*) ANN (*=- P.S. I also have many non-smoking friends too. And no, my uncle wasn't rare. At least not in my family. I also know many old people that continue to smoke. Message: 62228 Author: $ Ann Oudin Category: Chit Chat Subject: Pauley Date: 12/31/89 Time: 10:22:44 RE: "So is terminal heart disease, most of which is cause by smoking". Uhhh ... stop me if I'm wrong, but doesn't 'terminal heart disease' kill most people eventually? You sound like if everyone quit smoking, we wouldn't die or something! Just last night I heard on the news that Japan now has the highest longivity in the world --- and lo and behold, they have one of the highest smoking statistics also! I bet you'd give your eye teeth for a cigarette right now! Just try and tell me you don't want one! *Heh -=*) ANN (*=- Message: 62229 Author: $ Ann Oudin Category: Chit Chat Subject: Happy ... Date: 12/31/89 Time: 10:24:10 ... New Years to all you folks ... and that includes all the militant non-smokers too! -=*) ANN (*=- P.S. Don't forget - don't drink and drive! Message: 62230 Author: Roger Mann Category: Chit Chat Subject: paul/smoking Date: 12/31/89 Time: 11:11:11 Well, I must comment on this especially since this is one of the rare times tha Paul and I are in total agreement. As a reformed smoker, I am about as radical about smokers polluting my airspace as you can get. I don't mind if smokers pollute themselves, but I draw the line at smokers who are so selfish about their right to smoke, that they make my eyes water and my lungs react with their second-hand smoke. For example, I had breakfast in McDonalds this AM with my wife. While my wife and I were enjoying the paper, and finishing up our meal, a smoker lights up (apparently there is no non-smoking area in McDonalds) My eyes start to water, I start to hack, and the fumes are nauseating. Now whose rights have been violated. I say that MY rights have been violated. Mr. Selfish Smoker could have gone outside or gone home and stunk up his house to his delight. But, NOOOO, he had to stink up my airspace, make me sick, and ruin a perfectly good breakfast. Down With Public Smoking !!!